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	<title>Comments for Post-Assembly Musings</title>
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	<description>Thoughts related to the Assemblies of George &#38; Betty Geftakys - the experience, recovery, spiritual betrayal, faith, prayer, the Bible...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:19:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Dr. Paul Martin is in grave condition&#8230;. by Mark Seward</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/05/21/dr-paul-martin-is-in-grave-condition/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Seward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=358#comment-336</guid>
		<description>I had received an email from Carol Giambalvo at Refocus, that Paul Martin had recently passed away.  I regret I have no further details to offer.

Anyone wishing to leave notes in memory of Paul may contact the webmaster of &lt;a href=&quot;www.refocus.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.refocus.org&lt;/a&gt; . Carol will amass the comments for a future memorial page.  

I had the pleasure of being with him in an all day recovery conference.  His wit and  wisdom was inspiring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had received an email from Carol Giambalvo at Refocus, that Paul Martin had recently passed away.  I regret I have no further details to offer.</p>
<p>Anyone wishing to leave notes in memory of Paul may contact the webmaster of <a href="www.refocus.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.refocus.org</a> . Carol will amass the comments for a future memorial page.  </p>
<p>I had the pleasure of being with him in an all day recovery conference.  His wit and  wisdom was inspiring.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Does this resonate&#8230;.? by TH in SoC</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/does-this-resonate/#comment-335</link>
		<dc:creator>TH in SoC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=566#comment-335</guid>
		<description>This is certainly an &quot;energetic&quot; video.  However, it does not resonate with me.  In the Assembly, I too never &quot;overcame&quot; enough to feel like I had put God in my debt.  Rather, listening to George&#039;s preaching frequently made me feel like the earth was about to open its mouth and swallow me.  By contrast, he always made himself out to be the person who had done everything right.

The other thing I noticed about this video is that in emphasizing Christians who leave church because they are disappointed with God, the speaker elides the reality that many evangelical churches have become tacky and inhospitable due to the emphasis of their leaders on building personal religious empires for themselves.  This is a big turn-off for a lot of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is certainly an &#8220;energetic&#8221; video.  However, it does not resonate with me.  In the Assembly, I too never &#8220;overcame&#8221; enough to feel like I had put God in my debt.  Rather, listening to George&#8217;s preaching frequently made me feel like the earth was about to open its mouth and swallow me.  By contrast, he always made himself out to be the person who had done everything right.</p>
<p>The other thing I noticed about this video is that in emphasizing Christians who leave church because they are disappointed with God, the speaker elides the reality that many evangelical churches have become tacky and inhospitable due to the emphasis of their leaders on building personal religious empires for themselves.  This is a big turn-off for a lot of people.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So George could say&#8230; by Margaret</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/george-and-bettys-drama-production/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 14:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=13#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Brett, thank you for your comment and the reminder about the Fenelon chapter. It is a wonder how so many could have read that and discussed it at dinner table devotions in training homes, and not have seen the obvious application. We read through  &lt;em&gt;Christian Perfection&lt;/em&gt; several times at the &quot;House of Peace&quot; and yet it never dawned on any of us - which shows how deep the mind control was. You retained your critical thinking.

You go on to express your current beliefs, which are not Christian but derive from eastern religions. It is completely understandable that you would have withdrawn from what you experienced in the Assembly. But the Christianity of the Assembly was a serious distortion of the truth. God is not the perfectionist tyrant he was made out to be. His chief characteristics are goodness, love, justice, truth and mercy - very unlike most of his &quot;servants&quot; in the Assembly.

Brett, you need to consider that your philosophy does not take into account the guilt that constantly arises from failing to live by your own principles - without a Redeemer there is no hope. May Jesus draw you back to himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, thank you for your comment and the reminder about the Fenelon chapter. It is a wonder how so many could have read that and discussed it at dinner table devotions in training homes, and not have seen the obvious application. We read through  <em>Christian Perfection</em> several times at the &#8220;House of Peace&#8221; and yet it never dawned on any of us &#8211; which shows how deep the mind control was. You retained your critical thinking.</p>
<p>You go on to express your current beliefs, which are not Christian but derive from eastern religions. It is completely understandable that you would have withdrawn from what you experienced in the Assembly. But the Christianity of the Assembly was a serious distortion of the truth. God is not the perfectionist tyrant he was made out to be. His chief characteristics are goodness, love, justice, truth and mercy &#8211; very unlike most of his &#8220;servants&#8221; in the Assembly.</p>
<p>Brett, you need to consider that your philosophy does not take into account the guilt that constantly arises from failing to live by your own principles &#8211; without a Redeemer there is no hope. May Jesus draw you back to himself.</p>
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		<title>Comment on So George could say&#8230; by Brett D. Maxfield</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/george-and-bettys-drama-production/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett D. Maxfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 08:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=13#comment-331</guid>
		<description>I am very greatful for my experience with the Assembly but wish I had left sooner because I outgrew what it had to offer after a few years.  When i did leave, it took a lot of courage, in 1997, and I believe divine intervention.  One of the good things I got out of George was an introduction to Fenelon.  I would read Fenelon and listen to George and others teach on the exchanged life and being selfless servants and then watch in awe as they did exactly the opposite of what they preached in the way they lived and managed the church.  I followed their examples but I had serious silent objections (not always so silent) to the hypocracy.  Like the the author of this &quot;So George could say...&quot;, I came to realize that praying, preaching and Bible study could be ego building tools rather than ego diminishing tools.  

Fenelon had one letter that really openned my eyes.  He talks about how before we are &quot;saved&quot; our egos seek self glorification via power, money, prestige, etc. (in modern terms, in my case, sex, drugs and rock and roll).  Then he says after we are &quot;saved&quot; our egos can trick us to pursue the same goal of self glorification via preaching, praying, Bible study, etc.  Thus, much of what was taught was good but it was ruined by how it was translated into actions which were stark contradictions to logic based on what was preached.  At one point, I realized that people were not committed to truth in the Church, especially George and his henchmen.  Their egos were so in charge and had corrupted things holy into the work tools of the &quot;Devil&quot;, preaching, teaching, praying, etc.   

This sounds very black and white, which is how we learned to think in the church, the truth is none are all black or all white including George and co.  The true enemy is the small self in each of us which keeps us stuck in a belief that we are separate from God.  In reality all things and people are one with God, even if they are rebelling against God.  God is everywhere at all times, none can be separate from God, but they can resist doing God&#039;s will because God allows us free will. 

The ego is the key.  If we get rid of self will, we get rid of ego. If we get rid of ego, we get rid of selfwill. The ego ain&#039;t an amigo.  Ego stands for Edging God Out! However, the ego is a mighty opponent.  The ego plays tricks on us, we can feed the ego by teaching others how to live free from ego.  This is George and co. It is also me and co. to a less degree perhaps, but the fact is the ego is the same in essence in all as God is the same in essence in all.  The ego is the mud on the mirror of the soul.  The key is living it, not my will but thy will be done, not preaching it and manipulating people to do your will in the name of God&#039;s will.  

Ok, one last thought, this issue is not just a George and Co. problem but universal.  Since leaving the church I have studied all the major world religions and see the same pattern of abuse in every religion, also I have seen true spirituality in all religions when anyone from the heart desires to do God&#039;s will, God responds to that person even if they do not believe in Jesus.  Not my will be done but thy will be done is the key to salvation, belief in Jesus or whatever does not benifit unless it results in this transformation of the will from self driven to God driven.  

As John the Baptist said, He must increase and I must decrease, not my will but God&#039;s will be done.  God reveal your will to me and grant me the grace to do it, not talk or pray or teach, but to do as You instruct me to do day by day, moment by moment free from the bondage to the small self, the false self, my ego.  Also, Jesus is God, but God has such strong self esteam that he does not care if you understand him correctly. In fact no one does understand him correctly because he is beyond all words and comprehension of the mind.  Although we can never understand God truely intellectually, we can know him via love for him and from him, the language of the heart.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brettmaxfield.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BrettMaxfield.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very greatful for my experience with the Assembly but wish I had left sooner because I outgrew what it had to offer after a few years.  When i did leave, it took a lot of courage, in 1997, and I believe divine intervention.  One of the good things I got out of George was an introduction to Fenelon.  I would read Fenelon and listen to George and others teach on the exchanged life and being selfless servants and then watch in awe as they did exactly the opposite of what they preached in the way they lived and managed the church.  I followed their examples but I had serious silent objections (not always so silent) to the hypocracy.  Like the the author of this &#8220;So George could say&#8230;&#8221;, I came to realize that praying, preaching and Bible study could be ego building tools rather than ego diminishing tools.  </p>
<p>Fenelon had one letter that really openned my eyes.  He talks about how before we are &#8220;saved&#8221; our egos seek self glorification via power, money, prestige, etc. (in modern terms, in my case, sex, drugs and rock and roll).  Then he says after we are &#8220;saved&#8221; our egos can trick us to pursue the same goal of self glorification via preaching, praying, Bible study, etc.  Thus, much of what was taught was good but it was ruined by how it was translated into actions which were stark contradictions to logic based on what was preached.  At one point, I realized that people were not committed to truth in the Church, especially George and his henchmen.  Their egos were so in charge and had corrupted things holy into the work tools of the &#8220;Devil&#8221;, preaching, teaching, praying, etc.   </p>
<p>This sounds very black and white, which is how we learned to think in the church, the truth is none are all black or all white including George and co.  The true enemy is the small self in each of us which keeps us stuck in a belief that we are separate from God.  In reality all things and people are one with God, even if they are rebelling against God.  God is everywhere at all times, none can be separate from God, but they can resist doing God&#8217;s will because God allows us free will. </p>
<p>The ego is the key.  If we get rid of self will, we get rid of ego. If we get rid of ego, we get rid of selfwill. The ego ain&#8217;t an amigo.  Ego stands for Edging God Out! However, the ego is a mighty opponent.  The ego plays tricks on us, we can feed the ego by teaching others how to live free from ego.  This is George and co. It is also me and co. to a less degree perhaps, but the fact is the ego is the same in essence in all as God is the same in essence in all.  The ego is the mud on the mirror of the soul.  The key is living it, not my will but thy will be done, not preaching it and manipulating people to do your will in the name of God&#8217;s will.  </p>
<p>Ok, one last thought, this issue is not just a George and Co. problem but universal.  Since leaving the church I have studied all the major world religions and see the same pattern of abuse in every religion, also I have seen true spirituality in all religions when anyone from the heart desires to do God&#8217;s will, God responds to that person even if they do not believe in Jesus.  Not my will be done but thy will be done is the key to salvation, belief in Jesus or whatever does not benifit unless it results in this transformation of the will from self driven to God driven.  </p>
<p>As John the Baptist said, He must increase and I must decrease, not my will but God&#8217;s will be done.  God reveal your will to me and grant me the grace to do it, not talk or pray or teach, but to do as You instruct me to do day by day, moment by moment free from the bondage to the small self, the false self, my ego.  Also, Jesus is God, but God has such strong self esteam that he does not care if you understand him correctly. In fact no one does understand him correctly because he is beyond all words and comprehension of the mind.  Although we can never understand God truely intellectually, we can know him via love for him and from him, the language of the heart.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.brettmaxfield.com/" rel="nofollow">BrettMaxfield.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on So George could say&#8230; by Provender</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/george-and-bettys-drama-production/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Provender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=13#comment-308</guid>
		<description>There is nothing quite so unifying to an abusive church as a sense of elitism, the feeling that we alone are the special, dedicated ones. Abusive leaders foster that attitude in many ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is nothing quite so unifying to an abusive church as a sense of elitism, the feeling that we alone are the special, dedicated ones. Abusive leaders foster that attitude in many ways.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dr. Jones&#8217; answer&#8230;. by Margaret W Jones</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/dr-jones-answer/#comment-270</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret W Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=444#comment-270</guid>
		<description>Meg, I have a hard time with Matthew 18: 15-17 and a couple of other gospel passages because of the way they were used. Because of this struggle my bible study group picked Matthew to read and discuss this spring and summer. They and I hope I will finally be able to hear those verses in context and not in the way they have been distorted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meg, I have a hard time with Matthew 18: 15-17 and a couple of other gospel passages because of the way they were used. Because of this struggle my bible study group picked Matthew to read and discuss this spring and summer. They and I hope I will finally be able to hear those verses in context and not in the way they have been distorted.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Dr. Jones&#8217; answer&#8230;. by Margaret W Jones</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/dr-jones-answer/#comment-269</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret W Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=444#comment-269</guid>
		<description>Meg, that is a really good point. Most people need spiritual abuse defined for them but they understand what bullying is. It was an epiphany for me when I saw Stossel&#039;s show, &quot;The In Crowd.&quot; It was at that point I realized I was being bullied by my pastor and other church members. It put it into context for me and helped me realize it wasn&#039;t anything I had done wrong. 
BTW, I am traveling with my husband who is attending a conference. I will be spending much of my time writing and responding to comments for the rest of this week. So I am available right now and tonight. This week I am offering a special on &quot;Not of My Making&quot; If you go to my blog at www.notofmymaking.com/blog you will find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meg, that is a really good point. Most people need spiritual abuse defined for them but they understand what bullying is. It was an epiphany for me when I saw Stossel&#8217;s show, &#8220;The In Crowd.&#8221; It was at that point I realized I was being bullied by my pastor and other church members. It put it into context for me and helped me realize it wasn&#8217;t anything I had done wrong.<br />
BTW, I am traveling with my husband who is attending a conference. I will be spending much of my time writing and responding to comments for the rest of this week. So I am available right now and tonight. This week I am offering a special on &#8220;Not of My Making&#8221; If you go to my blog at <a href="http://www.notofmymaking.com/blog" rel="nofollow">http://www.notofmymaking.com/blog</a> you will find it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Virtual book tour&#8230;. by goddesspower978</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/virtual-book-tour/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>goddesspower978</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 15:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=434#comment-258</guid>
		<description>Very interesting topic.  Looking forward to reading more.  Love, Goddess</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting topic.  Looking forward to reading more.  Love, Goddess</p>
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		<title>Comment on Quote on spiritual freedom&#8230;.. by Toxic Sheep No More</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/quote-on-spiritual-freedom/#comment-226</link>
		<dc:creator>Toxic Sheep No More</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 01:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=334#comment-226</guid>
		<description>I love that quote! &lt;em&gt;Grace Awakening&lt;/em&gt; got my aunt and uncle out the cult - it blew their minds when they read it!
Thanks for linking to &lt;em&gt;Cult Next Door&lt;/em&gt; :)
As I said before - I love your blog so much that I keep it on an RSS feed :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that quote! <em>Grace Awakening</em> got my aunt and uncle out the cult &#8211; it blew their minds when they read it!<br />
Thanks for linking to <em>Cult Next Door</em> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
As I said before &#8211; I love your blog so much that I keep it on an RSS feed <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on So George could say&#8230; by Dave Sable</title>
		<link>http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/04/30/george-and-bettys-drama-production/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Sable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 16:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://megsmusings.wordpress.com/?p=13#comment-222</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed your post about the things that George had us do &quot;so he could say...&quot;.  It is amazing how many accolades could go along in his resume - preacher, teacher, college lecturer, apostle, missionary, counselor, mystic, theologian, etc.  And he impacted the campuses, the community, the world. 

I do remember one tent meeting that just happened to be scheduled the same time as the Harvest Crusade at Anaheim stadium.  The contrast was, well, telling.  Nevertheless you are right.  Did effectiveness matter, or was it simply &quot;so George could say...&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed your post about the things that George had us do &#8220;so he could say&#8230;&#8221;.  It is amazing how many accolades could go along in his resume &#8211; preacher, teacher, college lecturer, apostle, missionary, counselor, mystic, theologian, etc.  And he impacted the campuses, the community, the world. </p>
<p>I do remember one tent meeting that just happened to be scheduled the same time as the Harvest Crusade at Anaheim stadium.  The contrast was, well, telling.  Nevertheless you are right.  Did effectiveness matter, or was it simply &#8220;so George could say&#8230;&#8221;?</p>
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